Changing the perception of the manufacturing industry

Amanda Del Buono is joined by Terry Iverson, founder of ChampionNow!, a nonprofit organization with the goal of changing the image of manufacturing in the eyes of the next generation of workers. They discuss attracting the next generation of workers and changing their perception of manufacturing as well as in their parent's eyes.

In line with the podcast, Iverson is offering 30% off his book "Finding America's Greatest Champion," here


Amanda Del Buono: Welcome back to Manufacturing Tomorrow's Workforce. I'm Amanda Del Buono. For today's episode, I'm joined by Terry Iverson to discuss attracting the next generation of workers and changing the perception of manufacturing, not only in their eyes but in their parent's eyes as well. Terry founded Champion Now, a nonprofit organization with the goal of changing the image of the manufacturing industry in the eyes of the next generation of workers. He's also the author of "Finding America's Greatest Champion: Building Prosperity Through Manufacturing, Mentoring and the Awesome Responsibility of Parenting." Terry, thanks for being here today to chat with me about this important topic.

Terry: Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Glad to be here.

Amanda: So, can you just, I mean, start by telling your listeners a little bit about yourself, your background, how you got into manufacturing perception and workforce? Where did this passion come from?

Terry: Well, I'm very fortunate that my family's been in manufacturing for almost, not quite 95 years now. And so, I was kind of born into the industry. At first, I didn't think I wanted to work with my father and with our family, and then I realized I was really good at math and science and I had this phenomenal opportunity to work within the family business. So, I kinda woke up, so to speak, and took advantage of that. But as far as the last, well now this is going on my 40th year, but right around year 20, I decided to get into technical education and reach out to different schools, high schools, technical colleges, and community colleges. And I took a pretty deep dive into that, and then I realized that there was a great deal needed to bridge the gap. You know, they talk about the skills gap, but the gap I'm referring to right now is between industry, parents and students, and also education.

There are these gaps that exist that there isn't a lot of connection or cohesiveness in between the three. So, for all these years I've talked to manufacturers and every year, for all 40 years now, people have said the same thing, and that is we just can't find enough skilled workers. And in the manufacturing sector, I think we've done a very poor job of marketing our companies, marketing our careers. And we've kind of been in survival mode, not necessarily economically but from a workforce development standpoint. Every waking minute manufacturers spend training new people and training their existing people, and they really don't have a lot of bandwidth to go beyond that. And that's something I've tried to do is to go beyond that. I think our family's been very fortunate, and so I feel compelled to give back. But I've pretty much mentored young people most of my, if not all, of my adult life. I started in travel soccer coaching soccer and teaching young people, men and women, about soccer, but then also about life skills. And when I finished that, after about 25 years, I decided my skills and talents in mentoring could be applied to the industry, and to young people, hopefully, considering the industry.

Amanda: So, kind of taking a passion you gained outside of work and bringing it into your career as well.

Terry: Exactly.

Amanda: And so it, like they say, makes work not work.

Terry: Exactly. Yeah, absolutely.

Amanda: You've started this nonprofit organization, you wrote a book, why? What do you see in the next generation workforce? And why is it important to you to shed the dirty, dingy stereotype of manufacturing in the eyes of the young people coming into the industry?

Terry: Well, I mean, let's face it, the youth are our future. And we have to pay attention to it and we have to do the best we can to be an advocate for our young people, at least I feel.

As far as the 501(C)(3), as I said, I was pretty deeply entrenched in the technical education. I found myself on a CT Education Foundation Board in DC, a workforce development and education board in Florida for about nine years. And so, I decided that I was going to try to change perceptions, that perception of our industry is really not the reality. And that's a big part of what's present today. So, you know, I'm on a plane on my way to Washington for a meeting, and I'm writing down C-H change, and then manufacturing and perceptions, and, as you can tell, CHMP, I'm like, oh wow, change how American manufacturing is perceived. And then the ION, in our nation, just kind of came to me. So, it actually is an acronym.

I started the 501(C)(3) in 2012. And then around 2000...late 2015 and 2016... I had started writing the book in 2013 and put it aside and then I decided to, you know, to jump back in and try to finish it. So, I realized that what I had already written was not really a book, it was more just ideas and thoughts and stories. But then I realized how many people that I knew that were really fascinating people, that were either friends or family or acquaintances. And I think, of the 50 that I interviewed in the book, I only had to really introduce myself to about 10 or less. And then, because I had done coaching and I believed in mentoring so strongly, and I also think we have a parenting situation in our country, that we could all be better parents and the way we parent in today's world is different than the way my parents parented, that we could better that. And so, consequently, I brought in people that had nothing to do with manufacturing but I felt could speak to those two components also.

Amanda: Why do you think manufacturing still has this negative connotation? Why do parents tend to not want their children in this? What has made this continue on with the technology advancements and things that we've had, what is stopping families, parents and their children from seeing that this is a viable career opportunity?

Terry: Well, one of the things I've said for a long time is that manufacturing has been around for hundreds and hundreds of years and there's perceptions that have lingered for a long time. I graduated from high school in 1977. I didn't have a computer until I got to college. And even then, you know, they were teaching Fortran programming. So, you know, needless to say, technology has advanced very quickly. So, getting the word out and getting the change of what the reality is, is still pretty much a newcomer in terms of information. There's been a lot of media and a lot of press about companies closing down, which is valid. There's, of course, a lot of startups and a lot of reshoring. A good friend of mine, Harry Moser has developed the Reshoring Initiative.

However, the media and the government measures manufacturing in terms of employment numbers, and that's not the only measurement. That's the thing about numbers is you can look at numbers a lot of different ways. And it doesn't mean that each way is right or wrong, in many cases, they're all right. But, in order to really understand the impact of manufacturing in this country, it's not just about the number of employees that it employs. Because if you look at that alone, there has been a steady decline, probably from the 80s, early 80s on in a downward motion. But the reality is that this country's manufacturing economy, by itself, compared to other countries' entire economies, is the eighth largest in the world. So, it's still a huge component.

It developed our middle class, it's responsible for our middle class. And I often think about, when people start talking about our middle class and where is it and why is it suffering, they fail to realize it's suffering because manufacturing doesn't have the prominence it once had, and we need to get back to that. But I don't fault the moms and dads, and I certainly don't fault the students for not knowing. I fault us for not conveying that message. I fault the media. I fault the manufacturers, the industry members. I fault people like myself and that's why I try to make a difference.

Amanda: What would your advice to manufacturers be, how they can get out there and help change this perception? What should they be doing, do you think?

Terry: Well, first of all, I think it's great that people like you are doing podcasts and helping us, you know, being vocal and trying to educate people about it. So first of all, I give you guys kudos to you. Secondly, I think, from an industry standpoint, industry can do at least two things. One, Manufacturing Day is now an ongoing entity, and that started locally. We were indirectly involved back in 2012. On Manufacturing Day, manufacturers every October have the opportunity to open their doors to parents and students to come in and see what they do. And I can not think of a better way to change perceptions than to visually show. Many of the manufacturers, they have clean operations. Much of what we do in manufacturing is computerized.

I say that I can't see a young person not wanting to be involved if they know the reality, especially when they know how much computerization and automation that we have in manufacturing. The other thing is, I think that manufacturers can go to their local high schools. You don't have to go to multiples, just go to one or two that are joining or adjacent to your company, and join an advisory board and participate. And you know, yes, you can be a little bit selfish for your own needs, but be a little altruistic and do it for the betterment of the country and your community, and your high school. I also think that you'd be well advised to get into some sort of mentoring role or internship role at your company. And so that's just the start. But if most of the companies or many companies in a community or in the country did that, those are some of the things I write about in my means of conveying the message in some manner. I put all of that in the book.

Amanda: Yeah, I think it's interesting that you say that because I grew up, I think I may have mentioned this often, but I grew up in Joliet, Illinois, which has a lot of industry in and around it. But I didn't know, you know...

Terry: You're not alone.

Amanda: Which is funny because, I mean, there's oil companies in the area, there's energy companies in the area. There's a lot of industry there and I had no idea.

Terry: People drive by businesses every single minute of every single day. And so, at some point we need to educate individuals throughout our culture what is manufactured in our communities, why it's important to know that, and why it's important to know that we make things in this country. I mean, I say it in the book, that it's in our DNA.

Amanda: And it's kind of interesting because with young people, especially, you really have to try and make some noise, I think. Yes, as adults, we drive past, we don't see it and we're paying attention. It's being realistic, you know, my 14-year-old nephew has no idea what goes on around him. So, if you want to catch his attention and you want to teach him about something, you really have to kind of shout it from the rooftops to get his attention and be like, "Hey, we're here" you know. And you're bringing people in on Manufacturing Day, things like that, I think are all things that could catch that attention of those, you know, they're young, and even our adult attention spans are very short now, so.

Terry: Well, actually some old people like me have short attention spans, too. But the one thing I'll say is, and I tell young people, look, you have no excuse. You have YouTube, and YouTube has everything. So, if you're really curious and you get any inkling of interest, just Google anything.

"How It's Made." The show "How It's Made" is awesome. The only thing that I've said about "How It's Made" is it shows the process, but it really doesn't focus on the careers and the people. And that's something that I love watching as a manufacturer or someone in manufacturing. I love watching that because I'm very process-oriented. But for a young person trying to understand watching that and understand what the career is, it's not meant to be that for young people.

Amanda: Right. And it does also, I mean, it's interesting that you bring that up because it is one of the few shows, I think, that really spotlights manufacturing, but it doesn't spotlight the people. Very rarely do you see people, and if you do, it's...

Terry: Very fleeting.

Amanda: Yes, yes.

Terry: And not a deep dive of, what are they doing? And, you know, how much do they make? To that point, I think, as far as young people if you tell them that there's good money and that there's exciting careers that have computers involved, my opinion is they'll follow anything, they'll at least look at anything that pertains to that. And that pretty much defines what manufacturing in our country is. But once again, I tell every young person I meet, "You have YouTube, just Google anything you could imagine that you wanna see made, and chances are you'll see it on YouTube."

Amanda: And sometimes just getting out there, I think kids don't always know what jobs are available, right. They always want to be the policemen, firemen, those big jobs that all kids dream of. But sometimes I think that's just because they don't know that these other jobs exist, these things are there.

Terry: Yeah. It's up to us as adults in our culture, in our communities, to really educate young people, they don't know, it's not their fault. I challenge them to go on YouTube, they have to know what to search for, right. So, I think that it's a huge world out there and a good challenging career set, and well-paying career set, they just need to know that it exists. Now having said that, a lot of our media, and somewhere along the way, someone said that we're going to be a service-based economy, which, you know, was a dagger into my heart. When the reality is, manufacturing is what has made our country, in many ways, what it is. And know our economy is one of the biggest economies in the world. We still make just under 20% of the world's goods. Admittedly, China, it is a global economy and China does make over 20% of the world's goods. And they're using technology to the hilt. You know, it's not all about anymore, it's not all about just the inexpensive labor. Some of the best technology in the world they're applying in their community, at manufacturing plants.

Amanda: Absolutely. Well, we talked about what manufacturers can be doing. In your book, you also discuss educators, students, and parents. What roles do these three groups also play in that?

Terry: Okay. Well, educators sometimes have a tough time knowing what the market is. And, I talk about guidance counselors, for example. Guidance counselors, there should be two or three different types of guidance counselors because there's only one type of guidance counselor that I know of, and they're dealing with behavioral issues in then careers. Everyone in education is being pushed to college, college, college, college. And a lot of the schools are being measured simply by that. When reality is, the industry has changed and the industry actually needs more skill sets than it does need college degrees.

And I think what you see is there's a paradigm where there's a shift in what manufacturer, or not even manufacturers, companies, employers want. And it is a skill and you do need to be educated in that skill. But it isn't necessarily a four-year degree or a five-year degree, and I think you'll see that changing going forward each and every month and each and every year. So, educators have a tough time understanding what the market is because they have their marching orders, so to speak, on what they need to do and what they need to accomplish. And a lot of that's dictated by regions and states and federal government. However, the closer that they can understand where the manufacturing community, as an example, that is surrounding their schools. Laz Lopez at Wheeling high school did a really good job at this, where he surveyed companies nearby and what their needs were. And when he realized that a lot of his students could go right out of high school with a skill and go right into their workforce, right in their own community, I mean, that was gold. I mean, that was, you know, that was a fantastic, connect the dots, so to speak.

So, that's something that schools can do, is understand what their community needs are. A lot of young people, they want to get educated in some fashion but not always do they want to move away. Many times, they want to stay in their own communities. And many times, those communities need workers that have a skill. So, it's a disconnect that it's sometimes difficult to make the connections.

As far as parents, the only thing that I say about parenting in the book is sometimes we get wrapped up and we're all trying to do the right thing for our children, and I believe that 1000%. Now, what that is, that's based on what you know, not something that you have no idea about. And so, when the media propagates that just employment numbers are going down, well, why would I want my son or daughter to go into an industry that is declining? And when you look at the GDP, and what manufacturing contributes to our economy, you know that's significant.

The other thing that I would say is young people are at their best when they're doing something that they're really passionate about, they're really interested in, and that kinda lights them on fire. There’s a high school group I talked to today, I said, "You know, there's a match between what you enjoy, what you're passionate about. And if you can figure out a way to make money from that, and take your skill sets, you'll work long hours without even knowing you're working long hours."

And I'm sure you know, from your career, that once you put in long hours, you get recognized, many times financially and many times with advancement because older people in different segments of the working world, they want young people that work hard to be rewarded. And they want someone to step in behind them. So, I think that parents, they shouldn't get hung up on, "My son or daughter's going to XYZ school." I think we get caught up in that at times, and take a step back and say, well, what's best for you, what is the best use of whatever time and money we have, either the child or the parents and the child. Because if they really knew about careers in manufacturing, they'd realize that you can spend a lot less money on education and get a lot more gain in terms of salary, a good-paying salary, jobs that are open.

A mom asked me, "Terry, how can you guarantee my son or daughter will have a job if they go into this?" And I told her, I said, "I can't. There's a dramatic need here," I said, "But that can change every few years, who knows." But it's significant and what people don't take into account, is the baby boomers like myself, are getting older and they're retiring. So, that exit in the workforce trumps anything else in terms of the numbers that we need because the exit is so vast.

Amanda: Yeah, we actually just were talking about retirement, I think a few weeks ago now, but that's, you know... As somebody who has a hefty amount of school loans, it seems silly, to push your kids in that direction when there are so many other options. And I was among them, my parents didn't know what we had around us and to them, college was this path you take, right, that's just what you do.

Terry: Yeah. I remember growing up when I was young, I didn't really have a lot of guidance from my family, or from even the guidance counselor at my school. I really didn't. Of course, that was a billion years ago. But, you know, I will say that young people, you need to be patient with your parents. And you have the ability, as a young person, to search everything and anything on YouTube, Google, whatever. And so, you need to convince, not just because you say it, but because there's fact behind it. The point I was making earlier that I didn't finish, and I sidetracked myself, is that when the lady, the woman, the mom said, "How can you guarantee my son or daughter would have a job?" and I said, "I can't,” the flip side of that is that I know young people that have law degrees that cost well in quarter-million dollars to obtain. And even because the market is so saturated, they can't get a job, after spending a quarter-million dollars for a degree.

Amanda: Right. There's no degree that can guarantee, I wouldn't think, that could guarantee he's gonna walk out of college with a job. As nice as that would be, we would all love to have that, I'm sure.

Terry: Agreed. But the need is vast right now, and it's been vast for 40 years.

Amanda: Yeah, now that a lot of the boomers are exiting, it's getting to be...

Terry: It's accelerating, again, the wrong way, unfortunately.

Amanda: Right. And you're having a lot of kids coming out with, like you said, these college degrees but no maybe technical hands-on skills that they need on the floor.

Terry: Yeah. The class I was in today was about 22 people, 22 young men, and I said, "Right, who knows anything about manufacturing?" And of the 22, two barely raise their hands, like they were almost embarrassed to raise their hands. So, when you look at the numbers and, you know, 90% don't know, using that as an example, and 10% may know, we just need to do a better job. And our media needs to, you know, printed and visual and otherwise, needs to understand how important it is to our country, and that these are really good jobs. And with the amount of automation and computerization in it, it's just a natural for the next generation to have interest in it.

Amanda: I wanna kind of piggyback off of, you had mentioned that that class was 22 young men. So, in your book, you have a whole chapter about women.

Terry: I do.

Amanda: So, curious why you think that women are important in the industry, and why we need to be attracting more of them.

Terry: Well, that's a great question and I'll try to be brief but it'll be hard to be brief. First of all, women bring a different perspective. Men many times are very linear thinkers, okay. I know I'm a very, actually, I have two sides and I'm very fortunate because I think creatively, but I also think very linearly. Having said that the numbers that I state in the book, that I got from various places, is that 25% to 27% of the workforce in manufacturing is female. I don't necessarily believe that number, that's a high number, in my perspective. Now, our culture and our community and our population is close to 50/50. But I think women have a lot to offer and a lot of the male contingent in the manufacturing community needs to be more mentor-based and encouraging of women joining into manufacturing careers.

I've often said that a woman that comes into our career that has drive, determination, and interest, they can write their own ticket, they really can. Because, let's face it, women do bring a different perspective. They see things that, many times, we don't. It's a good thing, it's not a bad thing. And, I just think too many times, women have not been encouraged to pursue engineering or manufacturing. Now having said that, I was at Niles North or Niles West, and I was talking to some math classes. And as a result, I asked people to ask questions, and probably 80% of the questions that are being asked are by the young women, not by the young men, which I find fascinating.

So, I really think that the next generation, that there could be a significant increase in the workforce with women workers in manufacturing. Elk Grove High School, I sit on their advisory board as well, and they have a female-only intro to engineering. And so, what they found is that young men sometimes can be a little immature. I know I was. And so, consequently, they'll give a young lady a hard time about being in an engineering course, which is totally unjustified. So, what Elk Grove is trying is putting the young women in a class by themselves, and they don't have that element of distraction or negative influence. One of the young women in that class, and this is a pretty interesting question, she said, "Mr. Iverson, by time I get into the workforce, it'll be..." in this case she said somewhere between four and six years. "How can you tell me what the job market is gonna look like then?" And I said, "Man, that is a fascinating question." And I said, "I can't look into the future. I just know how long the need has been around, and it's getting worse, not better." And so, I think if you go to the Manufacturing Institute's website, it'll tell you 600,000 skilled positions, manufacturing positions, go unfilled every year. And there's two or three million manufacturing positions over the next, you know, so many years that will go unfilled. And there's not many industries that can tout those type of numbers or vacancies.

Amanda: Right. Right. And I think it's interesting that you mentioned that dichotomy between the young men and the young women in that class because our Influential Women in Manufacturing program, we did a gender diversity and career development survey, several months back. And the ladies who responded in the survey call it like a boys club mentality, which kind of reminded me of what you were talking about with that class where, And that's, I think, something that women, we need to get past as well, to help women be more comfortable getting into. But it's interesting to me to hear that it's happening with these young people just as much as it happens, from what women are telling us in the survey, in the industry itself.

Terry: Yeah, I have to challenge all the leaders in every industry, but in our situation with manufacturing to, you know, take a stand and take a leadership role in encouraging women to join our industry. My daughter was in our company for a while and she was fantastic. My wife's in our company, helping us. And so, I'm a big advocate of women being in manufacturing and us encouraging that.

Amanda: Well, I wanted to touch on, when we met off-air before, we had discussed that you were considering developing a series of workbooks and guides for those interested in manufacturing, based off of your book here. So, can you tell us a little bit about that? You know, what are you planning to do? Can you bring our listeners in on that?

Terry: Sure. Yeah, when I first started to write the book, it was discussed, my wife and I discussed that it would be a good idea to write several small books. And I just, I told her I can't do that. It's going to be hard enough to write a book, to begin with. Now having said that, I do contend that she was right, and breaking it down into smaller books makes sense. So, when she asked me, "Well who's your audience going to be?" I said, "Yes." And she goes, "All right. What do you mean by that?" Well, students, parents, educators and guidance counselors, and industry members. So, there's really four main groups that I try to speak to.

So, what I plan and hope to do is divide the book into smaller versions of the book itself, that is more targeted at each individual group. Then my plan is to put a workbook component inside the book, the smaller book. And then, I also plan on introducing or inviting two or three new interviews per small book, in addition to some of the existing interviews. So, new content, a new component, so that someone that's sitting there and says, okay, I buy what you're saying or I'm interested in what you're saying, now how do I go from here? And the workbook for each individual group, hopefully, would lead them through, here's some of the things you could do, or here's a financial model to show you that this is actually valid or valid for you, whoever that might be.

Amanda: So, you kind of covered the book, and you mentioned a little bit about ChampionNow!, but would you like to tell us a little bit more about the organization, why you founded it and what work it's actually doing to make an impact?

Terry: Well, I'll start by saying the reason I wrote the book is to give credibility to the foundation. Every time I sell a book, all the money goes into the foundation. That's the way it was always designed to be. But as far as Champion Now, the 501(C)(3), what my hope is, is to do a variety of things, but basically get the message out about manufacturing careers, possibly hold events at different metropolitan areas around the country. I do have plans and have a director of volunteers. We haven't really gone out for an ask, a financial ask. But once again, you know, getting the book written and published was a start to speak to that. The other thing is I did do my first summer camp down in Florida, I write about that in the book. And it was free of charge, so ChampionNow! covered all the costs. I hope maybe to continue doing something like that.

Amanda: What was that like? What was involved in the summer camp?

Terry: Well, I grew up in Jacksonville, Florida, and my wife and I both come from there. And so, what we did is I sent a CNC lathe down to a school down in Jacksonville, and basically had, I think it was nine or 10 young people, I think there was one or two young women in it. I taught them how to make parts, basically introduced them to CNC turning and inspection. Basically, I teach them this is how you make a part, this is how you program a CNC machine, this is how you check the part that you just made. Ideally, what I'd like to do is also have a design element, like an engineering element, where we draw a part in one part of the camp, like week one, maybe, and then week two, we actually make what we drew. And then also prove that we made it to what we were supposed to make it.

But in addition to a camp like that, that I'd like to replicate in different parts of the country, I'd also like to start scholarships once we do an ask in terms of money, funds because I sincerely believe that there's always, in getting any education, there's always financial barriers. And so, even a less expensive education doesn't necessarily mean that it's affordable. What you'll find also, and your listeners should at least know this, is that many manufacturing companies are eager to hire, and also pay for education. So, many people will come into a company, in a manufacturing company, and then also, while they're working full time, maybe take classes at night. And so, although it's a full load, that's one means of getting your education for your skill, that's something that you may not be able to afford and you're still earning money too.

Amanda: Yeah, and we've covered some companies, manufacturers, that have partnered with their local schools and done things where for parents who can't necessarily put that time in outside of work, that they would give them, you know, half a day, you're gonna go and do this training or this whatever instead of your normal work. Maybe not exactly great for the scheduling situation, but they're figuring out a way to allow people to train.

Terry: I think they're being more creative than ever. I think, manufacturing, probably out of necessity and out of survival, we're on the leading edge of paying for education for their workforce. And they've been doing that for a long time but now they're upping their game because, as you just eloquently said, it's not always feasible because of family or what have you, to take a night class.

Amanda: Right. Well, great. Was there anything else about the foundation that you think we should know?

Terry: Well, what I would say is, I think the best way to learn more about ChampionNow! is to go to our website which is And then, if you want to learn more about the book, there's a book component, a drop-down, and you can buy the book right off of there.

Amanda: Do you have any ways for manufacturers to get involved with your organization?

Terry: We do have a component to volunteer and to go on the ChampionNow! site and send an email in for volunteer. I'll be meeting with my director of volunteers probably in the next couple of weeks, so we can try to enact a game plan going forward. And then the other thing, if you go on, I think it's news, on the ChampionNow! site, you'll see there's videos on there, there's interviews on there, there's articles on there. There's more information. So, to the young person that doesn't know anything about manufacturing and wants to know more, there's a tremendous amount of information there.

Amanda: Awesome. Well, is there any other points you want to add or any key takeaways that you wanted to reinforce?

Terry: Well, I think that the takeaways is that each group has their own marching order, so to speak, to be able to make an impact or a difference. And some of that impact is for the benefit of others, and some of that impact is for the benefit of themselves. For example, parents can learn more in a variety of different ways. I challenge them to listen to their children in terms of what they enjoy and what they want to go into. And challenge them challenge them to prove that what they're saying is factual, that they're not just dreaming this up. And there's all sorts of ways to do that.

I challenge manufacturing companies to get engaged. They've been engaged for a long time but their engagement is mostly internal in developing their workforce from within. So, sometimes that's hard for them, and I get it. And then educators, I think challenging the neighboring community leaders in terms of companies, and what their needs are. And from a government standpoint, from a political standpoint, challenge our leaders to not just measure our schools in a way that only leads to one path. And that path is four or five-year college degree. When you look at the numbers, you know, we're preaching to a populace that's, 10%, 20%, 30% tops of the young people. And we have to worry about the other, you know, 80%, 70%, 60% or thereabouts that need a career path just as bad or more than a college path.

Amanda: Oh, great, thank you so much. I appreciate you coming in today.

Terry: Thank you. Thanks for being the voice so that we could be heard.

Amanda: Thanks to our listeners for tuning in today. We'll be back in two weeks. I'll be speaking with Joe McMurry of the Purdue Manufacturing Extension Partnership, and we'll be talking about retention strategies. Until then, stay tuned with Manufacturing Tomorrow's Workforce on our LinkedIn and Facebook pages.

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